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Post by jbrown62r on Dec 19, 2011 22:04:27 GMT -8
   Yeah me! I get to learn how to rebuild a 4 stroke. I'm hoping its just a head gasket and not a cracked head/cylinder. Either way I will probably end up replacing all the moving parts so I figured I'd post up dates as I go here instead of a blog. Maybe you guys can give tips as I go? Ya ya, Tip #1 buy a 2 stroke....ha ha very funny. |
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Post by rooster73 on Dec 20, 2011 9:27:48 GMT -8
Ahhhhh, ya.........refer to tip # 1.
It would be very interesting to see the step by step JB. I really hope it is not a "major" and only is gaskets and such. Good luck and will be waiting to see your blow by blow. Even if it's just a head gasket, while the heads off (and I know that means valves checked, etc) be sure to replace the timing chain while it's open. Have you ever been inside a 4 stroke? I did mine once, (top end) and really don't want to do another.
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Post by jbrown62r on Dec 20, 2011 9:58:35 GMT -8
This will be my first time. I'm sure there will be quite the learning curve. Starting with how in the heck to get it out of the frame...
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Post by rooster73 on Dec 20, 2011 10:53:54 GMT -8
Actually, I believe the best option is to do it in the frame. Much more stable to disassemble. I did mind in frame knowing there was no cases being opened. No need to get into the transmission and such. Do you have something to cradle the engine in if you take it out? Not quite like throwing a 2 stroke up on the work bench and doing engine work. I do all my top ends on 2 strokes in frame as far as that goes. Only time I pull one is to do tranny or engine swap. Disassemble one piece at a time and keep a notebook beside you. As you get older the memory fails you and you can't remember exactly how that one little part fit in that one little place. Notes will make your day alot more enjoyable. Color coding, draw pictures, and small notes will make re-assembly look like your a pro. The internet also will be your best friend during this endevor, has many breakdowns on engine parts so you can sleep at night.
Again, Good Luck.........................I'll start looking for good deals on craigslist for a "nice RUNNING" 2 stroke.
I'll give up my 2 stroke when they pry it loose from my cold dead fingers..............................(remember the pro-gun ads from years ago)?
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Post by gregg86n on Dec 20, 2011 17:13:09 GMT -8
I hate to tell you this, but if you have coolant in your oil, its a bad thing. The silica in the coolant will take out your crank and rod bearings. If you just do a "In Frame" The lower bearings won't last long.Good luck!!
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Post by rooster73 on Dec 20, 2011 20:14:59 GMT -8
OMG   |
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Post by larry63r on Dec 21, 2011 0:08:56 GMT -8
Take lots of photos. I take a huge amount of photos when I am working on things. I have a bad case of CRS so I bought a small, cheap digital camera and keep it close at hand. Later, after everything is back together, I just delete them off my computer.
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Post by jbrown62r on Dec 25, 2011 15:35:32 GMT -8
Thanks for the tip on the bearings Gil. I might as well replace them as long as its torn down. It also blew out a few other oil seals, and I'm finding that its a bit difficult to clean the white foam.
I've seen several blogs and posts on websites about rebuilding this motor, and it looks "doable". I'll start the tear down tomorrow.
Merry Christmas guys!!
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Post by gregg86n on Dec 26, 2011 6:10:24 GMT -8
You should have left a call back number the other day when you tried to call. I have to leave Tuesday for another 3 weeks, so I will miss the banquet. You are in for a very expensive re-build. You will need some outside help when splitting the cases and replacing the rod bearings. Be sure to talk with Scotty at NMS. I won't trust anybody else. Be sure to change all timing gear, Timing chain and tensioner and all guides. Something cracked to cause all of the blow-by to pressurize the radiator like that. Be sure to change the water pump also. Take a good look at the head and cylinder.
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Post by rooster73 on Dec 26, 2011 21:17:07 GMT -8
Sounds like it would be easier just to get a new motor!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I know, shut up Russ. I wonder if you could just put the 500 motor in there easier? A few brackets and a little tube cutting. Then you would have a motor............................ya?  ?? Don't mean to rag on ya JB< just havin alittle fun with ya.......... Rooster |
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Post by jbrown62r on Dec 26, 2011 21:43:53 GMT -8
Its all good Rooster. I'm enjoying the whole experience. Today was a good day if you getting your hands dirty and then scratching your head trying to figure out how to get that pig of an engine out of there. Now I know it can be down because I've seen whole motors sitting on work benches.... With the foamy greasiness of motor there were not many pictures. Seemed like as soon as I washed my hands they were dirty again, and the camera doesn't need to become a greasy mess. Motor out and preparing to change all the suspension bushing/bearings.  It was tricky getting this thing out of the frame, but its done now. For about an hour I felt overwhelmed and almost threw in the towel.  I think tomorrow I'll call a bike shop or two and do a quick cost vs risk analysis and see how badly I want to do all the work myself. I really don't think there is much to this. My concerns are that I might not get the clearances right on the valves, or that I might not get the seats right. I'm not worried about the piston or bottom end at all. That stuff is all about the same and it goes back together in the opposite order it came out. Now I'm just typing this so I feel better about it. From the sounds of the people I've talked to they make it sound like if I have a shop do all the work I might as well just buy another bike....I heard guesses from $1000-2000 bucks. Last time I checked a clean 450 that is less than 4 years old still cost 5k+. I'm hoping this rebuild gets done for less than 700 bucks. |
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Post by jbrown62r on Dec 28, 2011 21:54:08 GMT -8
No pictures today, but I found out that the cylinder was cracked. Looks like the water froze and caused the blowout. So the new parts are on order and I’ll find out by Monday if Chester at NMS can weld the cylinder. I had the guys at NMS check all the other stuff, like bearings, valves, springs, water pump.
I did a few other things to the bike as long as its torn down. I took the forks into Greg Chapel, and greased the head bearings. I cleaned the fuel filter and lubed the petthingy. Once I get the forks back and get the final bill on the motor and radiator I’ll decide on replacing all the rear suspension bearings and bushings. In the mean time I guess I’ll polish the frame.
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Post by rooster73 on Dec 29, 2011 16:29:35 GMT -8
;DJB As long as it's down and you want to freshen it up here are a few suggestions on things that will enhance your ride. Be sure to exchange the air in the forks, check the knobby bearings, recalabrate the water impeller fins and by all means please check the spoke gap on front and rear wheels. Another hot tip is that I heard that cuttilng 19/64" off your motor mount bolts will give you a much better balance to the bike. Have fun with the rebuild, you should be on a 2 stroke.................Rooster
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Post by jbrown62r on Jan 3, 2012 10:42:03 GMT -8
LOL. Love it Russ. I tried several of those suggestions and each of them succeeded in waisting time. Got half the frame cleaned up and now I need to decide if I want it like a mirror, or just nice. In the past I have polished until its a mirror, but after 1 or 2 rides its back to being scratched up. So this time I'm leaning towards just nice and shiny.  I also tightened the spokes on both wheels and sharpened the knobs on the front tire. And what is that? a new rear tire from Santa...OH YEAH! ![]() i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa326/jbrown62r/P1023707.jpg[/IMG]I also found out that Chester was able to fix the radiator, so we are one step closer to some fun ride days again. |
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Post by jbrown62r on Jan 14, 2012 0:16:04 GMT -8
There was some good news and some not so good news. The cylinder was able to be welded, and it all went back together how it was supposed to...Or so I hear. (I had Scott at NMS put the engine all back together) So then the challenge of putting it back in the frame and getting all the other goodies back on. Surprisingly the engine dropped right in and was ready to be tested with in an hour. Some how there was a leaking head gasket, so after the simple tear down and torqued the head nuts an extra 4lbs the leak went away. HOT DIGGITY!! Ran a few test runs up and down the street at 11pm and looks like she is ready for a practice day at the fern. Here's a few more pics from the clean up and service.  Found that the chain guide was worn through the rubber and part way through the aluminum. So now there is a new insert and a cleaned up/polished guide.  I was a bit rushed on time putting it back together, but here it is all finished  I think I got all the greasable spots greased and replaced just about everything that showed wear. I'm sure I missed something, but we should be good to go for another year..."Fingers are crossed" I would like to put out a big THANK YOU to Scott Stillmock, Chester Martinmaas, and Rich Thorwaldson. I would have really been up a creek with out these guys help. Thanks again guys. JB |
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