4 moto or 5

[mxgranpa]

Talking with Ron C. at CV and with other riders around the OTMX there seems to be a bit of controversy concerning the dilemma of whether or not to offer a 5 moto format or a 4 moto format. You don't have to ask around much, or at all, to hear one opinion or another.

Here's some of the stuff I've heard about the issue. "We're not getting new younger members. The OTHG guys don't want to run five motos so they don't race with us. Something needs to be done and 4 motos is the best answer to the problem", "I'm not going to race if I can't run 5 motos", "4 motos takes away from the strategy of the 5 moto format", "5 motos makes the long trips to races worth while" and "well if you want to race more than 4 motos you can always run two classes".

So I'm in the +70 class now and with me 4/5 motos is a moot question now. In days of old when MX was young in Europe and in the early 60's we ran three motos. As many of you did I started out in the 60's doing three 45 min. motos in one day. Are we now heading to four 10 to 15 min motos per weekend? What ever happened to the physical fitness aspect of MX? There's no worthwhile racing for seniors (+50 up) in Nevada so what are we going to do if we don't want to quit? And are we getting our money's worth spending around $500 per weekend traveling to races to spend an hour or less competing over two days? Personally, it's a need to compete regardless, so I'll probably be there. So what do you think? Any opinions to add to what's been going around lately?

[jbrown62r]

In my opinion 4 moto format will NOT bring in more young(30-49) guys.

The reason I see less participation from the younger group is because of the expense and time commitments. The advantage the Gang has is that there are only 5 races. To be in contention for a title in the Gang you have to go to all the races, and to be in contention in the 40 age group with the OTMX you need to go attend 8-9 races. The simple numbers say that at 600 per race the Gang series is at least 2k a year cheaper.
The advantage the OTMX has is that there is a wide diversity in tracks. The gang doesn't go to Washougal or Boise, either of the Canada tracks, Vegas, or Arizona.

I think it really comes down to the guys with kids at home have to pick their battles a bit more carefully than the empty nesters.
At some point I plan on racing the whole OTMX schedule, but not this year. For now I say bring on the 5 long motos

Remember 50 is the new 30.....

[mxgranpa]

Well said JB! You brought up some interesting points of view from the Gang age group. I know that when I was a early 30's race guy in the '70's I kept my family of five bored and broke traveling to races and it made it very hard on us financially. Many of the older guys in OTMX clubs have come to a place where they have the time and resources to travel and participate in far away races. Also the big spending days of the early 2000's are long gone.

P.S. My X-wife is now my x-wife largely because of my passion for MX and after 36 years still hasn't quite forgiven me yet.

[lawnman]

This was my initial question when jbrown posted about IOTMX on 775. With the option of offering 4 motos, and dropping the age to 30, it seemed like OTMX was now an off-shoot of the Gang.

I think it may actually boil down to a case of supply & demand more than "young blood". When there was plenty of money around, numerous tracks running and bikes flying out of the showrooms, there was plenty of room for niche' markets. When I first learned of the OTMX, that is what I saw it as, a niche' association catering to a certain age group and offering a lot of riding over a three-day event (Fri. practice-5 moto racing). I personally liked the idea and joined. Just like OTHG, WORCS, MRANN, D-36, LiveFast, SMRA, CMC, et al, everyone is trying to capture a specific segment of the dirt bike experience.

But when economies turn, niche' markets suffer the most and people tend to draw inward to less-costly leisure activities. They travel less, and shorter distances, for their entertainment... racers being no different. Racing organizations look for ways to draw more participants from a shrinking population and the competition for that population causes some of them to drastically alter what they worked so strongly to be when times were good, and that was a unique and different experience. I know that WORCS and MRANN discussed and took steps to broaden their numbers. WORCS radically changed their PRO format and MRANN created a vintage class, among other things. But both still offer the specific type of racing that got them where they are.

But the real challenge is how do you change with the times, but not change who you are. The AMA changed the rules for Enduro Racing, which saved the sport, brought in lots of new racers, but still offers a unique type of racing that kept the traditionalists involved. If the OTMX eventually goes to a 4-moto format everywhere, with an age 30 entry level, they will no longer be unique, and for any current OTHG member, why join...there's no difference, other than the venues. I believe that one of the clubs even offers a limited weekend membership for their national. As stated, you really have to want to shell out the $$$ to race a venue like Washougal or British Columbia, and in these times most aren't going to do it. Today's fuel costs wipe out the very thought of it for most folks.

But in the meantime the reason something like OTMX was formed gets lost in the re-shuffle (much like a corporate makeover) and comes out the other end looking just like everyone else, and that's too bad IMHO. I hope it survives, flourishes and finds a way to stay unique, however it will be interesting to see how the clubs address the issue. One thought is that the 4-moto format is optional, so when things do turn around (they will, they always do) a return to the 5-moto format is easily accomplished.

[larry63r]

I will not be going to any 4 moto OTMX internationals. I don't go to any OTHG nationals now because of the short motos and all the drunks that seem to go to those races. I go to races to race, I don't drink and I don't want to be around a bunch of drunks that or more interested in partying than racing.
The only gang national that I go to is our Reno OTHG national but I go more to work than to race. I camp far away from everyone and I am late for every one of my motos. I let everyone go and I get last. I don't care because I look at it like I am riding 4, 5 lap practice sessions.

[mxgranpa]

Lawman, I don't see OTMX or for that matter OTHG as a niche' market promoters are trying to attract but rather clubs formed because there is no market for older riders.We've created a market that would not be there without us. OTMX kinda of forces the issue of "senior mx racing". Promoters are not interested in marketing to riders over 40. If they were that segment would grow. OTMX is contrary to the MX racing scene and therefore needs to keep changing to be able to offer racing to older riders and the 4 or 5 question is just one more attempt to look at what needs to be done to survive.

Racers have quit because the classes end around 30 or so and the OTMX INTL. races, thankfully, fill a much needed void in the market.

And to you local senior racers my question is; If you state (you know who you are) you won't race if OTMX decides not to offer 5 motos where else you gonna race? With the SMRA? Racing against the same few over and over again and beating or getting beat by the same riders all the time? That's dumb!

Local senior riders I anxiously await your angry reply!! ;D

[rooster73]

Four (4) moto, five (5) moto, what the heck. I'd go if it were a 3 moto format (if I could afford it). I'd go if it were a l day 3 moto format (if I could affort it). I'd go if it were a l day 2 moto format (if I could afford it). I'd go if it were put on by the OTHG or the OTMX (if I could afford it). I'd go anywhere to race, with anyone, with any format, (if I could afford it).........................Rooster

[rooster73]

oh Jim, I forgot to tell you, Vince likes grass, not cops..........

[mxgranpa]

Feb 1, 2012 8:02:47 GMT -8 rooster73 said:

Four (4) moto, five (5) moto, what the heck. I'd go if it were a 3 moto format (if I could afford it). I'd go if it were a l day 3 moto format (if I could affort it). I'd go if it were a l day 2 moto format (if I could afford it). I'd go if it were put on by the OTHG or the OTMX (if I could afford it). I'd go anywhere to race, with anyone, with any format, (if I could afford it).........................Rooster

Cudo's to you!!! Your a true racer!!! Thank God for the Roosters of this world!!! You already know it you want to go and can't afford it you can always hitch a ride with me.

My only other comment is; I'm just turning 70 and I expect to be racing for 15 more years. The OTMX is the only origination in the world (except for England's Vintage ORG.) that offers classes from 30+ thru 80+. I know Rooster that when I reach the 80 class you'll be there two years after me. Do I have the genes to get me there? Yep, my brother's 96 Y/O.

[rooster73]

Jim, thanks for the offer, I will be taking you up on that during the season. As for the genes, I know you have them, me too. But if it's hot that day I'm wearing shorts.................Rooster

[larry63r]

I guess I am a little tainted by being in the 40 age bracket. In 40 novice I can expect to have 3-7 riders in my class at the internationals. At an SMRA race I can expect to have 10 -15 riders in my class. In the races at Fernley I can expect to run 5-6 laps on a track that takes about 2:00 - 2:30 per lap. That's about 10 -15 minutes per moto and my son has a huge class to race in. There have been several internationals that my son was the only 85 at the race. Last year he was the only 85 at the L.A race and they let him race with the big bike support class. At the sierra international there were two or three riders in the 85 support class but in one of his motos he was the only bike on the track. Larry let him have a full moto by himself and that was awesome. He even went up the big hill one lap just so he could ride it once to see what it was like.
For me, being an out of work electrician with limited funds and living off my wifes money, I can't spend the money to go to races that are far away. I can only race the closest races. That leaves only the CV ,LA, Sierra, Nevada and SoCal races that I can make. Now you have to figure in the amount of riding I can do because of my health issues. I can only ride once a month at best. It takes that long for the pain to subside enough for me to even think about riding again. I spend most of the money that I can spend on riding taking my son to practice and race. That's life with one hip and one lung. I wish I were in as good of shape as some of you 60 year old men. For me, it just didn't work out that way. I knew it would be this way when I broke my neck at the age of 16. Life is pain and how much I can put up with before I have to sit down for a few days to get it back down to a manageable level.

[lawnman]

mxgranpa, I respectfully disagree, although we may be arguing semantics:

niche= (nich or nesh)

a. a situation or activity specifically suited to a person's interest, abilities or nature.

b. a special area of demand for a product or service.

Is this not what OTMX is? People gravitate to it for specific reasons:

-more old school tracks,
-longer motos,
-wide variety of tracks,
-the trip to the far away races is an adventure,
-racing against people same age,
-racing isn't as aggressive,
-caters to a different age group.

My only point is, if you fulfill a specific need for a specific group of riders, you aren't going to get very large, unless the desire for that product or service increases. So changing to capture more of the market (mx racing in general) comes with the risk that the change(s) you make, make you more like the rest of the market, of which there is only so much of a demand.

In other words, OTMX may only ever capture _______percentage of the racers out there, no matter what changes they make. The goal of any organization/business is to enjoy the good times, survive the lean times and not lose your identity. Maybe for IOTMX that means combining some chapters (more people doing less work), reducing the number of races on the schedule (more racers with more money traveling to fewer events) instead of trying to draw from a market that is already established. You could always alter which tracks are used. That is exactly what WORCS did, went to two main events on the same weekend to cut down on the amount of travel by the racers.

Interesting discussion.

[mxgranpa]

Larry you know my admiration for the way you juggle your passion for racing and seeing that your son is able to compete as well. Your in a tough spot and you handle it well. To add to that I get a kick out of your "old school" approach to attending races. Keep up the good work and do what you have to do to keep on racin'!

[mxgranpa]

Lawman; I don't need a lesson in vocabulary, semantics, syntax or anything else, especially on this site where ya say what ya wanna say and don't sweat the small s***t.
Having said that, your use of the word niche when describing the OTMX as part of the greater MX "market" bespeaks of you lumping the OTMX into the greater motocross "market" which is decidedly not the case. The OTMX exists because the "market" has no interest in the age group the OTMX caters to.

Please read the signature box at the bottom of all my posts. Thanks

A good arguement can be more fun than sex, dope, good food ah hell it must be better than something.

[Bob Fabel]

A couple things

Jeremiah you said "to be in contention in the 40 age group with the OTMX you need to go attend 8-9 races". 8 or 9 races will be counted depending on how many total races there are. If there are 14 races this year they only count your best 8 races. That is half (7) plus 1=8. This allows the riders that go to most of the races to throw out their worst scores.

You can go to as few as 2 races and qualify for the year end trophy. But those 2 races must be in 2 different zones. The Old Timers have 3 zones. There is a Southern, Central and Northern zone. Some riders go to the area zone races but don't travel to make the zone requirement. You won't get a big trophy but you could be in the top 10.

It is a lot of traveling, but we are lucky because we live in the middle of everything. From Fallon I could drive to Las Vegas, Los Angeles, SoCal, Central Valley, Sierra, Idaho and of course the Fernley race. That's 7. All of these tracks are less than 400 miles away. If you were doing good, you could go a little further (Washougal).

As far as the 4 vs 5 discussion. There is one thing for sure. It will be changed again. Back in the days when there were 3 motos on Saturday and 3 motos on Sunday,some of the riders had a long way to drive after their 3 moto on Sunday and they wanted to get going as soon as possible, so that led to the 2 moto Sunday. There used to be a trophy presentation held after the 5 moto race on Sunday. Some guys wanted their trophy's sooner so a rule change was made to allow guys to pick their trophy's 30 min. after they're posted.

Lawnman, don't pay too much attention to mxgranpa. He gets a little cranky when he's not riding.